HOMEBREW Digest #1731 • Neperos (2024)

HOMEBREW Digest #1731 Mon 15 May 1995

FORUM ON BEER, HOMEBREWING, AND RELATED ISSUES
Rob Gardner, Digest Janitor

Contents:
Apartment; Dr. Bristol? (Russell Mast)
Lactose Milk Sugar... (James Powell)
Re: Corn Sugar/ Mouthfeel (RWaterfall)
Gelatin for clarification (Bill) Fishburn" <fishburn@greenmfg.me.Berkeley.EDU>
Sparge aeration - Thanks. (Tom Baier)
Homegrown hops and AA% (Glenn Tinseth)
Decoction Mash Questions (billj)
mouthfeel ("Wallinger, W. A.")
Re: FG/Mouthfeel (Mark E. Lubben)
brewing in an apartment (Bryan L. Gros)
apartment brewery (barber eric stephen)
SABCO Kettle ("Jim Hunter")
Recipe request for Drake's Ale (Glen_Baldridge)
Dextrose/thermal expansion of water (Dan Sherman)
High finishing gravitites (Beersgood)
bread & stuff (Ronald Moucka)
Alkalinity - normality as definition ("Bob Hall" )
Fermenter Aspect Ratios/Aquariums/Question after Question (Kirk Fleming / Metro Technologies)
(no subject) (Jeremy Bergsman)
Mouthfeel (WillisCPC)
She's a WHAT?!? (Pat) Babco*ck" <pbabco*ck@oeonline.com>
Tropical Flavors ("Robert W. Mech")
RE: Yeast Pitching (Robert_Ser)
Mercury! Give me a break! (Domenick Venezia)
Wort chillers (DONBREW)
Hops Schedules (Kenneth Whitney)
Mailing Beer From Europe (Jaw3)
Microwave sanitation (Ronald J. La Borde)
Grand Cru/ co*ck Ale (Aaron Shaw)
Aluminum Stainless kettles (TomF775202)

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----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 May 1995 09:36:23 -0500
From: Russell Mast <rmast@fnbc.com>
Subject: Apartment; Dr. Bristol?

> From: Steve Seaney <seaney@pwrtrn1.me.wisc.edu>
> Subject: Apartment Brewing

> Is it possible to do all grain inside?

Yes. I don't recommend trying it with the King Cooker. I've been brewing
in an apartment setting for years, including abot a dozen all-grain batches.
I've only brewed 5 gallon (4-6, really) batches, and I think it would be
damned hard to brew anything larger.

> I would be interested in learning about any 'setups' or equipment that
> could make the transition easier.

I would like to make the transition in the other direction, actually. I
tend to use lots and lots of milk-crates (collegiate modular furniture.)
I have a brew kettle which straddles two burners. In my previous apartment,
if I had more than 5 or 6 gallons to boil, I had to split it to get it
boil in a decent amount of time. I use a copper coil in a bathtub as a wort
chiller. As someone else mentioned, that much boiling in a little kitchen
makes it quite sauna-like. I just open some windows. I've found that a Gott
cooler is invaluable for maintaining a stable mash temperature.

Hope that helps, if you have any specific questions, feel free to e-mail me.

> From: I Gelman <igelman@smtplink.mssm.edu>
> Subject: Microwave Madness!!

> (an inverted Baked Alaska). Kids, you may try this trick at home.

Cool!

> From: LBRISTOL@SYSUBMC.BMC.COM
> Subject: Final Gravity

> Taking all of these thoughtful comments together, it seems to be that
> there is room for further research in this area. My goal is not (as
> many seem to suggest) to use FG as an objective measure of mouthfeel,
> but as a means to quantify the influence of various mash conditions
> (such as time, temperature, pH, stiffness, etc.). All of which are
> related to this concept of mouthfeel. I'll see what I can glean about
> this subject and get back to you if I think I have found anything
> worthwhile.

This gives me an idea. We could devise a scale for mouthfeel, much like
the Lovibond rating for color. And, just like you could get a red beer or
a brown beer which rate the same degree Lovibond, you could have subjectively
different textures rate differently on this "body" scale. Nonetheless, it
very likely _can_ be scaled. It will not be subjective by the strictest
criteria of objevtivity, but it might be handy in formulating recipes.

And, just like you can write on a bag of crystal malt that it's 60 deg L, you
could write some kind of mouthfeel rating on it as well. And, just like
color, the final product's actual mouthfeel will vary greatly depending on
procedure used to make it into beer, but it might vary in a way systematic
enough to be useful when selecting a grain bill for a particular beer.

Another parallel with Lovibond (though perhaps not SRM, I don't know) is that
this mouthfeel rating, while obviously linked in many ways to the underlying
chemistry of the grain or extract, this scale would be based on empirical data
using a standardized procedure to compare different ingredients on the same
grounds. (Including standardizing carbonation and temperature.)

So, rather than looking to derive a mouthfeel rating from other numbers in
the beer, perhaps we (we?) should construct a new scale. I see some potential
problems with this, specifically some ingredients having a different relation
to temperature, so it wouldn't scale simply, but it'd be worth some effort.

> Especially if I take David Draper's comment to heart: "Let us know,
> Larry, if you work this out, so we can award you the Nobel Prize in
> Brewing!"
>
> Cool! :-)

Very. This would make a great dissertation topic for anyone trying to get
a PhD in Brewing Sciences. (Is there such a thing? Maybe I should consider
going back to grad school. Heh heh heh.)

-R

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 May 1995 10:24:43 -0500
From: jpowell@surgery.bsd.uchicago.edu (James Powell)
Subject: Lactose Milk Sugar...

Hello,

A quick 'Thank You' to all of those responding to my lauter-tun/false bottom
question. I'll skip the wood frame and build a copper manifold.

I've seen Lactose Milk Sugar on the shelves at my homebrew supply shop and
would like to ask the following questions:

1. If I use this in my beer will people who are lactose-intollerant be able
to enjoy this beer without the stomach aches and nasty lactose side effects?

2. I have never used this sugar before, could someone please explain what
type of recipes call for it and how much of this product is normally added
to these recipes?

3. Will lactose milk sugar add a 'cream' flavor and/or mouthfeel to the beer
since the sugar is derived from a dairy product?

With regards to the last question and mouthfeel, I'm sorry to be punching a
dead horse but I would like to learn a little bit about lactose milk sugar
since it is on homebrew supply shelves, not mentioned in too many of the
recipes I've come across, and only mentioned in passing on the HBD.

Thanks in advance for any information people are willing to part with. If
enough information is sent to me I will post the results to these questions.

Jim Powell
jpowell@surgery.bsd.uchicago.edu

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 May 1995 12:10:42 -0400
From: RWaterfall@aol.com
Subject: Re: Corn Sugar/ Mouthfeel

Alan Keig says:
"Apparently there's a terminology difference between the United States and
Australia; what you call Corn Sugar is known as Dextrose [aka Sucrose] over
here. Dried Corn Syrup is a wheat-derived adjunct."
- -------------
It's been a long time since I took OChem, so I'll just quote from the text
(Morrison, Robert and Boyd, R.; "Organic Cemistry", (Allyn and Bacon
Inc.,1973)):

"(+)-Sucrose is our common table sugar, obtained from sugar cane and sugar
beets."

"When (+)-sucrose is hydrolyzed.... it yields equal amounts of D-(+)-glucose a
nd D-(-)-fructose."

"This inversion is....often called the inversion of (+)-sucrose, and the
levorotatory mixture of D-(+)-glucose and D-(-)-fructose obtained has been
called invert sugar. (Honey is mostly invert sugar...)."

"Because of their opposite rotations and their importance as components of
(+)-sucrose, D-(+)-glucose and D-(-)-fructose are commonly called *dextrose*
and *levulose*."

The authors were from New York University, so I assume the naming conventions
are American, if not international. My local homebrew shops sell corn sugar
that definitely does not taste the same as table sugar. Thus, I assume what
I get at the shops is glucose (a monosaccharide) and not sucrose (a
disaccharide).

I've never seen dried corn syrup, but that doesn't mean it's not out there.
That Alan's Dried Corn Syrup is a *wheat-derived* adjunct shows that we have
to be careful of terminology when communicating with the other parts of the
world. According to my dictionary, corn syrup is a "syrup prepared from corn
and containing glucose combined with dextrin and maltose." When you say
"corn" in the US, people think of what the British call "maize" since they
already use the word "corn" to refer to just about any grain. Your Mileage
May Vary (especially in countries that use kilometers).
- --------------
My $.02 on the mouthfeel thread is that the viscosity may be more of a factor
than the density (gravity). Motor oil has a lower gravity than water, but
definitely feels thicker (fingers, not mouth) than water. That's because
it's more viscous. I forget the details since I took Fluid Mechanics about
the same time I took OChem. Basically, higher viscosity means it takes more
force to move one bit of the fluid past another bit of fluid. Also, there
are two types of viscosity related by the fluid density, so there may some
room for FG to affect the mouthfeel.

Bob Waterfall,
Troy, NY, USA

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 May 1995 09:36:29 -0700 (PDT)
From: "R. William (Bill) Fishburn" <fishburn@greenmfg.me.Berkeley.EDU>
Subject: Gelatin for clarification

Howdy, folks!

My latest batch is the recipe for Rocky Raccoon's Crystal Honey Lager
from TNJHB. I don't think the recipe called for irish moss, but I
generally use that for clarification. Well, on this batch I forgot.

I read TNJHB that gelatin can be used at bottling time. I'm wondering if
anyone has tried gelatin. Papazian indicated that it works better in
kegs because of the longer settling distance, but I use bottles.

Private e-mail is fine: fishburn@greenmfg.me.berkeley.edu

TIA,
Bill Fishburn

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 May 1995 09:55:28 -0700 (PDT)
From: Tom Baier <BAIER_T@SALT.PLU.EDU>
Subject: Sparge aeration - Thanks.

I would like to publicly thank the kind people who helped
me with my aeration-during-lauter question. You have once
again established HBD as the ultimate brewing resource.
Sincerest thanks to Spencer (not Spenser) Thomas, Domenick
Venezia, Jeff (not Nancy) Renner and Mike Marshburn for taking
the time to point out the error of my ways.

Special thanks to Jim Dipalma for hitting the nail on the head:

>Tom, FWIW, my take on this is that you may have a combination of off flavors
>due to HSA and diacetyl that you are perceiving as DMS.

My sparge-helping, hop-buying, homebrew-loving wife (be jealous)
said that she could actually SEE the light bulb go on over my head.

(picture of Bart Simpson at blackboard) "I will not splash my sparge...
I will not splash my sparge..."

Among other helpful and relevant comments were Jim's nice recap of
fermenter geometry, and Domenick and Jeff's observations about
quickly raising the mash temp at mash-out.

With apologies to Bob... Now, go brew some beer.

Tom Baier - Tacoma, WA - baier_t@salt.plu.edu

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 May 1995 10:04:36 -0700
From: gtinseth@teleport.com (Glenn Tinseth)
Subject: Homegrown hops and AA%

Al Korzonas writes:
> Or, I believe you can send a sample to the University of Oregon (call
> ahead to make sure), but I'm pretty sure the cost will make it more
> expensive than store-bought.

Well, you could send them to U of O but they'd probably just try to smoke
them ;^). It's Oregon State (in Corvallis) you want, the USDA Hop lab is there.
Last I heard it'll cost you around $35 per sample for alpha, beta, moisture,
and oil analysis. Al's right--it makes more sense to use your homegrown for
finishing or brew a couple of test batches (or hop teas) to determine the
bittering power.

Cheers,

Glenn

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 May 95 11:40:31 cst
From: billj@mails.imed.com
Subject: Decoction Mash Questions

Greetings from the swamplands of Texas

I have been brewing AG now for about 1 1/2 years using step infusion
process, and would like to try decoction mashing. The end effect that I am
looking for is an increased Malt flavor (ie EKU Ruben -sp?-). I prefer
german style dark lagers but will probably try my first decoction on an Alt
recipe. Any suggestions on technique or grain bills to reach my "malty"
target will be much appreciated.

My question after reading the decoction FAQ is about PH control. I have
ZERO experience with PH control (except for that "Lactic Lager" incident,
something about sparge water not buffering very well. Can you say drain
cleaner?).

The decoction.FAQ states :

>- pH must be checked and corrected to avoid extraction of
> tannins from the husks (anything below appr. 5.7 is ok)

Will the temperature of the decoction effect the PH measurement (I will be
using PH paper test strips, don't recall the range)? If so is there an
offset scale that I need to use.

When do I need to test the PH (at the rest temp or at boil)?

Also if someone could describe a typical dec. mash for me I think that I
would feel more comfortable. The general procedure is pretty well described
in th FAQ, but I like having a warm fuzzy feeling about what to expect (I'm
more of a visual/tactile kind of guy). Please feel free to describe tips
and tricks (that are absent from the FAQ) such as what should the
consistancy of the decoction be (thick oatmeal or barley seed soup), or
when you know things are getting too hot/dry/burnt/etc and what to do about
it.

Also I read that I can expect a greater extraction rate. How much?

TIA
Bill Joy I don't care how long it takes,
billj@mails.imed.com I Just want Good Beer!
Angleton Texas

------------------------------

Date: 12 May 1995 10:26:10 PDT
From: "Wallinger, W. A." <WAWA@chevron.com>
Subject: mouthfeel

From: Wallinger, W. A. (Wade)
To: OPEN ADDRESSING SERVI-OPENADDR
Subject: mouthfeel
Date: 1995-05-12 12:16
Priority:

- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------

well, how 'bout one more post on 'mouthfeel':

one additional variable that would seem to affect 'mouthfeel' is the
viscosity of the beer, which is somewhat independent of gravity. this might
explain why proteins can affect the 'mouthfeel' - filtering them out does
not change the gravity significantly, but this probably changes the
viscosity (i think proteins are sizable little buggers) which changes the
mouthfeel. perhaps mouthfeel could be correlated to a) gravity, b) viscosity
and c) relative sweetness (if there's a way to measure that).

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 May 1995 14:09:12 -0400
From: mel@genrad.com (Mark E. Lubben)
Subject: Re: FG/Mouthfeel

I think FG (with a factor added to correct for alcohol content lowering FG)
is an indicator of mouthfeel, I don't think our mouths are really feeling
the beer's density, though.

If you exclude the sweetness(taste) alcohol(astringent)and PH(sting) parts,
I believe a scientific quantity that might better indicate mouthfeel
would be viscosity. Having seen (cooking) oil float on water, I believe it
has a SG less than one, yet most folks would agree it is "thicker" in their
mouth than water. What is higher for the oil is it's viscosity. I believe
there are standard tests to measure viscosity using a shaft with 'propellers'
in a tank with fixed baffles sort of like reverse propellers coming out of
the walls. The electrical power required to spin the shaft at a certain
RPM is then used to compute the viscosity. There may even be a newer test
which rapidly 'wiggles' a single wand in a certain size tank. If there are
any mechanical engineers or chemists on the HBD who really know viscosity,
feel free to chime in.

I also agree with the comment that carbonation can affect the mouthfeel.
This points out that any measurement/grading technique might want to control
the carbonation level or decarbonate the beer like Dr Fix's color technique
from the HBD a few years back (or his Vienna book). That observation
also makes me wonder if surface tension is part of mouthfeel. I think
it is related to viscosity, but I don't remember any details. I can
see how varying the surface tension of lots of tiny bubbles being pushed
between your teeth and tongue could be part of the whole mouthfeel thing.
I do remember from Papazian or Miller that surface tension is a major factor
in head retention. I have NO IDEA how surface tension is measured...

Anybody know if the Megas measure viscosity or surface tension either
before or after fermentation?

These are just my thoughts, I am an electrical engineer by profession,
but I did really ace freshman organic chemistry over a decade ago. :)

Mark Lubben (mel@genrad.com) Concord, Mass

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 May 1995 11:14:27 -0700
From: bgros@mindseye.berkeley.edu (Bryan L. Gros)
Subject: brewing in an apartment

Dan Pack writes
>... But living in an apartment
>I'm limited to my stovetop so my question is is it practical
>to boil 6-7 gal of wort using an electric stove? How long
>is it going to take to reach boil and am I going to be able
>to sustain a rolling boil for 60-90 min? What are the
>experiences of you stove-top brewers.

When I used a stove, I was barely able to keep four to five gallons of wort
boiling. That's why I made three gallon batches at the time.
I'd recommend getting a larger, shallow pot so you can straddle burners and
keeping the pot partly covered. And you'll need some replacement pans that
go under the burners, because they're tough to clean after the boilovers!

*****Note lack of commercial ads here******

- Bryan
bgros@mindseye.berkeley.edu

- Bryan
bgros@mindseye.berkeley.edu

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 May 1995 14:26:15 -0400 (EDT)
From: barber eric stephen <barber_e@einstein.eng.ohio-state.edu>
Subject: apartment brewery

Steve asked about brewing in an apartment (5-12-95).

I brew in an apartment, always have. I have zero
problems, but I put my 15 gal. boiler on a gas range
using two to four burners at once. Since you have a
propane burner you would have to brew outside. My
friends use a three tier system and brew right on the
front steps of their apt. propane burner and all.
Try to rent a place with a gas stove, for year round
brewing fun, and try to get a big brewery, er kitchen,
for plenty of room.

Eric

------------------------------

Date: 12 May 1995 11:32:05 -0800
From: "Jim Hunter" <Jim.Hunter@quickmail.llnl.gov>
Subject: SABCO Kettle

Mail*Link(r) SMTP SABCO Kettle

In HBD #1729 E. Kraus indicates:

>I was thinking of buying one but a friend of mine has 2 and has had
>plenty of trouble with the screens they seem to colapse.
>Yesterday he had a 25lb mash drop the screen.

>HAS ANYOUE HAD ANY PROBLEMS WITH SABCO KETTLES ?

A friend of mine who purchased a SABCO kettle awhile back brought it to
me to see if I could correct a problem he was having with it since I do TIG
welding at home. I guess he was having the same problem that your friend was
having but to a lesser extent; just a lot of the grain getting through the
false bottom. I don't know how many pounds of grain he was using or how it was
being used but I know he just used it the one time.
The false bottom (SS screen) has a plastic like trim around it I guess to
protect from snags, unraveling and seal with the wall. It came off during his
mash. I don't know how it was originally attached, slip fit or glue. We
decided to scrap the screen idea and go with a perforated SS hinged bottom.
What the inside of his kettle is like is that it has the 3/4" SS coupling
slipped half way through the wall of the keg and welded. There are 3/4" SS
pipe fittings used for a down tube running horizontally to an elbow, then down
to the center bottom. The vertical pipe is a SS nipple with the lower end
threads parted off. Around the inside wall there are these 5/16" or so SS rods
about 3" long stud welded, I presume, to the inner wall spaced about every
45#161# or so. This would make a good rigid base for the perf. bottom we
thought. Unfortunately the SS rods were attached on the same center line as
that of the 1" diameter wall coupling, putting the top of the coupling and the
6" nipple and elbow about 1/2" above the top of the rods tops. Maybe this
could be contributing to your friends mash drop and my friends grain passage?
This defiantly would not work with a rigid bottom (co*cked surface contact
points) so we had to attach spacers to the SS rods to bring them up to the
coupling height.
I built the SS hinged perforated bottom and it rides nice and flat on the
spacers and the horizontal pipe and coupling. He hasn't had an opportunity to
do a mash yet but I'm sure it will work fine. One of the other problems he had
with it was the nice ~ 3" dial thermometer top temperature range was only to
120#161# F. He was going to contact SABCO regarding a replacement thermometer
that would go to 212#161#. I also took the oppertunity to remove the teflon
tape that was on the coupling and elbow fittings.
I hope this information helps. It seems to me that even though the stud
welded rods extend radially to the center ~ 3" each and the down tube extends
horizontally, clear to the center of the kettle, there still might not be
enough support for that flexible screen mesh causing the sides to come in and
let grain through.

Jim Hunter

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 May 95 14:38:44 PST
From: Glen_Baldridge@ccmail.medicus.com
Subject: Recipe request for Drake's Ale

I am searching for information on a brew called Drake's Ale from Lind
Brewing Co in San Leandro CA (outside Oakland) that I am hoping to
replicate.

It is a British Amber with a malty taste but not as hopped as a pale
ale. It also had a slightly sweet taste that I recall.

ANY INFORMATION on possible yeast, hops, adjuncts (Malto-Dextrose?),
IBU's, etc. is appreciated. Of course, an extract recipe would be
more than appreciated! I called the brewery and got a message that
said that this brew used Roland? hops. Anyone ever heard of these, or
know of a substitute?

Private e-mail is fine. If I come up with a recipe, I will post:
this is the finest beer that I have ever had, and is what prompted me
to start homebrewing. I can get the color with the help of crystal
malt but my use of Cascades and dry ale yeast need to change. Problem
is that I tasted the Drake's before I knew anything about brewing!

TIA,

Glen Baldridge

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 May 1995 13:20:26 -0700 (PDT)
From: dsherman@sdcc3.ucsd.edu (Dan Sherman)
Subject: Dextrose/thermal expansion of water

Not to nitpick, but...

Alan Keig writes:
>what you call Corn Sugar is known as Dextrose [aka Sucrose]

Yes, corn sugar is dextrose, however dextrose and sucrose are not
the same thing. Dextrose is glucose [D-(+)-glucose, I believe, for
all you chemist-types]. Sucrose is a disaccharide, each molecule
consisting of one glucose residue linked to one fructose residue.
Sucrose is (at least in the US) common table sugar.
Sorry, Alan, but I can't help you with "Dried Corn Syrup."

A while ago, someone posted some information about the thermal
expansion of water. I couldn't find the post by a quick search of
the digest. Does anyone know a formula or a good rule of thumb that
relates the volume of a quantity of water (or wort) at boiling with
the same amount at room temperature?

Cheers!

Dan Sherman
dsherman@ucsd.edu
San Diego, CA

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 May 1995 16:21:24 -0400
From: Beersgood@aol.com
Subject: High finishing gravitites

I am new at this but am having a problem that my local supplier doesn't seem
to be able to answer. I've brewed 7 batches of beer so far, all have ended at
least 1.015 with most of them at 1.020. I know that this in itself isn't
impossible but these beers includes recipes that state an ending gravity of
1.005 or 4 from Charlie's book.

One particular brew that I had go bad and am now in the process of trying
again is a modification of "Righteous Real Ale" from Charlie. I used 6 lbs.
of Amber dried malt and some hops that shouldn't (I think) affect anything.
The first time it started at 1.039 fermented vigorously for less than 24
hours and stopped at 1.031. I added yeast nutrient - nothing. I re-pitched
with a dry yeast starter - nothing. It sat in the fermenting bucket until it
smelled bad - about 2 1/2 weeks.

This time I used the same recipe but added a little bit of yeast nutrient
right before I pitched the yeast. Beggining gravity was 1.040. Also I used
two packages of dry yeast instead of one. It fermented vigorously for less
than 24 hours. I measured today, the fifth day, for the first time. It is at
1.030. This time I took off the air-lock and sloshed the wort around for a
while then put the airlock back on. I got that idea from Homebrew Digest
somewhere but I don't know if it was right or not. My supplier didn't like
the idea. (He is a good guy, he felt so bad that the first batch went bad
that he split the loss with me! I)

My feeling is that the ending gravities should be lower, at least closer to
what the recipe calls for. Any ideas?

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 May 1995 17:52:24 GMT
From: rmoucka@omn.com (Ronald Moucka)
Subject: bread & stuff

Brewers and Bakers,

I noticed in the most recent issue of Zymurgy, that there is
a bread company in the northwest (sorry, don't have the name
in front of me) that uses the spent grains from the regional
breweries to make bread. I know this has been discussed
before, and several good recipes have been offered on this
forum. I make an excellent bread (thanks to Jeff Renner as
I remember) that uses about 25% spent grains. My question
is, what is the best way to finely grind the spent grains?
I currently dry the grains and then just crank down my old
Corona and grind as finely as possible, but that still
leaves some pretty good sized chunks. Any suggestions?

On an unrelated subject, the converted (legal) keg I've been
using as a brew pot is developing a brown coating on the
bottom that is next to impossible to scrub off. I'm not against
using a little elbow grease, but this stuff is really tuff.
Any suggestions on something to use that doesn't require
rubber suits and special training?

Thanks, and Brew On
.:.
:.:.
/|~~~~|
(_| D |
| B | Ron Moucka, Brewmaster
`----' DayBar Brewing, Ltd.
"It's not so much an indication of our legal structure
as it is a reflection of our abilities."
rmoucka@omn.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 May 1995 18:06:51 -0400
From: "Bob Hall" <bhall@sparc.ecology.uga.edu>
Subject: Alkalinity - normality as definition

A.J. deLange asks:

>I took the definition [of alkalinity] I used (molar) from "Principals of
>Brewing Science"and find it very appealing in that one gets to multiply and
>divide by 100in going back and forth between molarities and ppm as CaCO3 and
>thehydronium required for neutralization is simply the alkalinity divided by
>100. On the other hand I note that my very own water report shows 150.1
>mg/l bicarbonate as the ion as 123.0 mg/l as CaCO3. (150.1)(50)/(61) =
>123.0 so it looks as if Culligan is in the normality school. So the
>question is: what is the standard?

I have always used the normality definition of alkalinity in my classes. (I have
actually never seen the molarity definition). However, I looked up the method of
determining alkalinity in a book "Standard methods for analysis of water and
wastewater" published by the American Public Health Association. They calculate
alkalinity using the normality method. I would strongly suspect that water
treatment facilities (where we get our water information) use the APHA book, and
its definition of alkalinity. If the brewer calculates alkalinity using the
molarity method, and the water treatment plant uses the normality method, then
the brewer will underestimate the buffering capacity of the water by a factor of
two.
To calculate alkalinity (given the normality definition where 1 mole of CaCO3
can neutralize two moles of H+):

x meq/L* 100 mg CaCO3/mmol * 0.5 mmol/meq = Alkalinity as mg CaCO3/L

where x is the milliequivalents of acid (millimoles of H+ ions) per liter
necessary to neutralize the water sample (to a pH of 4.5).

Bob Hall

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 May 1995 16:09:33 -0600 (MDT)
From: Kirk Fleming / Metro Technologies <flemingk@usa.net>
Subject: Fermenter Aspect Ratios/Aquariums/Question after Question

RE: Friday's HBD wherein Jim Dipalma talks abt fermenter aspect
ratios:

>...working from memory...the [George Fix] article said the
> "ideal situation" is when the aspect ratio is 1:1 or less, and that it
>should not exceed 2:1. The aspect ratio <A/R> of Corny kegs is a little
>over 3:1...

I've fermented 9 batches in a stoneware crock having an A/R of 1. Since
this is my first fermenter having that A/R, and these batches are my first
open ferments, I can't attribute the results to either condition. But, the
9 batches have gone *very* quickly compared to glass carboy ferments of
comparable beers,
and seem to ferment out much more completely.

After at most 48 hours in the crock I rack to a Corny, which I then lay down
on its side. Since these are 3 gal batches and not 5 gal, there is still
quite a bit of surface area when the beer is inside the Corny--if this has any
bearing on computing A/Rs. After 1-2 weeks in the secondary, I've seen no
readable sg change. [the remainder of msg is fwded fr myself, not quoted]
>
> Q1: How influential is pressure on fermentation? When I put the beer in the
> Corny's I use 5 psi to ensure a sealed hand-hole. I then leave that
> pressure on the vessel during the ferment. Izzer any data source showing the
> response of yeast action to pressures of this magnitude?
>
> Q2: What would be the most meaningful method for computing the aspect ratio
> of the contents of a 1/2 full Corny keg laying on its side? Average depth
> to diameter, average depth to keg length (height), or what?
>
> Q3: I need a somewhat larger capacity open fermenter. I'm thinking of an
> aquarium, and wonder if there are any specs I need to be aware of (are they
> all cemented together with the same type of silicone, are the bottoms made
> of the same kind of inert material, etc). [Your response here provides a
> real opportunity to slip in some SS airstone comments while appearing to
> stay in context.]

- ------------------------------------------------------
Kirk R Fleming / Colorado Springs / flemingk@usa.net
- ------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 May 95 15:41:07 0000
From: Jeremy Bergsman <jeremybb@leland.stanford.edu>
Subject: (no subject)

For those looking for frig temperature controllers: I just got a Hunter
Airstat from a mail order company. The price was 34.95+4.50 S&H + 2.88
tax if you are in CA. Free S&H if you buy 3 or more. The company is:

Tiger Tail Productions
43345 47th St. West
Lancaster, CA 93536
(805) 943-6238

I found them in an ad in the Celebrator. Standard disclaimer.

Jeremy Bergsman
jeremybb@leland.stanford.edu
http://www-leland.stanford.edu/~jeremybb

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 May 1995 19:15:31 -0400
From: WillisCPC@aol.com
Subject: Mouthfeel

I work for a major Corn Wet Miller in this country and one of the products we
produce internationally is a malto-dextrin. The sole use for this product as
I understand it is as an adjunct for brewing to improve the "mouthfeel" of
the finished product. Bottom line as I see it is that the feel of the beer is
due to the non-fermentables in the wort which could be from added dextrins or
other non-fermentable sugars such as lactose or higher saccharides.

Gregg WIllis
WillisCPC@aol.com

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 12 May 1995 22:16:11 +0000
From: "Patrick G. (Pat) Babco*ck" <pbabco*ck@oeonline.com>
Subject: She's a WHAT?!?

Hey, guys! Stop with the love notes to Kit Anderson. She doesn't
brew. No, er, what I mean is of COURSE she doesn't brew. No, no,
no! That's not it! (Must be those aluminum pots again!) By God,
SHE'S A HE!!!!

I misread those 'Brewters Who Run With The Wolves' articles thinking
that Kit was the poster. Had I used my memory, or my archives, I would
have recalled what Dan Hall (Brew Free or Die!) so eloquently pointed
out to me in private e-mail:

"Yup, Kit is a brewer. What Kit isn't is a woman."

I believe Kit pointed this out himself in HBD 1586. Musta skimmed
it.

And now, for your amusem*nt...
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Warning! Thermal Barrier! Self Flambe Imminent! Read on, by all means!
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Babco*ck, you MORON! (ouch!) Don't you research your subject? (Well,
usually but I...) Stop talking, you low-life, scum-sucking,
pediococcus infection! (Owwoooooooo! It'll never happen again! I
PROMISE! AIIIEEEEEE!)
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Temperature returned to normal. Thermal barrier lowered.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

Sorry 'bout that, Kit.

Nuff said by this crispy critter for a while! Gotta go pour beer on
my wounds. (Well, I gotta have SOME reason to lick my wounds, don't
I?)

"Drink all you want - I'll brew more!"

Patrick (Pat) G. Babco*ck | "Yip, Kit's (Anderson) a brewer...
President, Brew-Master | What he isn't is a woman." - Dan
and Chief Taste-Tester | "Let a good beer be the exclamation point
Drinkur Purdee pico Brewery | at the end of your day as every sentence
pbabco*ck@oeonline.com | requires proper punctuation." -PGB

------------------------------

Date: 13 May 95 09:00:09 EDT
From: "Robert W. Mech" <76271.3507@compuserve.com>
Subject: Tropical Flavors

Recently my folks took a trip to hawaii, and brought me back some "Raw" sugar.
Its simply been ground up from the sugar cane, and "steamed". What I have
basicly is sugar with a high content of molassas in it. I also recieved about
20 "Chopsticks" which are 100% sugar cane, still in cane form.

Now my question is, ive been considering for over a month now, what type of beer
I want to make with this. I have 2#'s of this raw sugar, so I figure its only
going to make 1 batch of beer. Does anyone have any ideas on how I should use
this sugar? Is it going to be better to use it in the secondary? Ive tasted
the sugar, and its got a very unique taste to it.

I wouldnt mind trying something with Fruit or pineapple, maybe toss in some
coconut in there. I really dont have a clue. Id rather not just "See what
happens" id like to hear if anyone else has used "Raw" sugar, and maybe
Pineapple in thier beer.

A unique question, hopefully Ill get a unique answer.

Robert

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 May 95 12:55:00 edt
From: Robert_Ser@ceo.sts-systems.ca
Subject: RE: Yeast Pitching

Message:
Hello...

Rob Reed says:
> Most homebrewers habitually underpitch yeast and probably would
> be shocked if they saw how much yeast is pitched in commercial
> operations.

That, my friends, is an understatement! I recently visited Hart's
brewery located in Carleton Place, about 45 minutes West of Ottawa.
During the tour, we were told that they use approximately 22
POUNDS(!) of Yorkshire stone yeast in every 500 gallon batch. My
rather loud 'gasp!' drew a smirk from the tour guide who then said
'Oh, I see we have homebrewers visiting us today!'... [Sigh]...
If you are in the Ottawa region, try to visit the brewery (open
Sundays only, 613-253-4278). It is rather interesting, and the
free samples at the end are great! ;-) I particular, their Amber Ale
and Stout are both very good.

Rob in Montreal

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 May 1995 12:37:28 -0700 (PDT)
From: Domenick Venezia <venezia@zgi.com>
Subject: Mercury! Give me a break!

I apologize for the bandwidth in advance, but this alarmist fervor over a
tiny bit of mercury has finally gotten to me.

> From: "Dave Bradley::IC742::6-2556" <BRADLEY_DAVID_A@Lilly.com>
>Some Material Safety Data Sheet (MSDS) excerpts are:
> "Acute conc'n. of 28 mg/cubic meter immediately dangerous to life

In the 100'x100'x15' (4248 cubic meters) room described below that would
be 119 grams of mercury totally volatilized! If 1/1000th of the mercury
from a broken laboratory thermometer containing 0.5 grams mercury
volatilizes (actually it's much less) it would take breaking 238,000 such
thermometers in the room to reach 28mg/cubic meter! Get a grip, folks!

>"Threshold Limit Value (TLV) = 0.05mg/M3 and would be exceeded if the
>contents "of a small clinical thermometer were dispersed in a closed
>"100'x100'x15' room.

This means a small clinical thermometer contains about 0.2g mercury and
if ALL of that was volatilized in the above room the TLV would be exceeded.
Again if 1/1000th volatilizes you would have to break 1000 such thermometers
to attain this level.

>My apologies for the bandwidth, and I appreciate/look forward to brutal
>sarcasm as much as anybody, but this is a serious issue. If you
>have spilled mercury at home, I can suggest some cleanup hints.
>But if you've done this in your cookware, I think you should
>seriously consider the item(s) a loss.

Sell your home! Wear a respirator! Get a grip!! How many mercury amalgam
dental fillings have you got in your mouth, Dave? I have about 4 or 5
containing many thermometers worth of mercury. Do you consider your
mouth a total loss? Of course not, you blithely chew your food and
swallow it without a thought. Quit scaring people needlessly. Scrub
the brew kettle in question with a scouring pad, wash the residue
down the drain and be done with it.

Domenick Venezia
ZymoGenetics, Inc.
Seattle, WA
venezia@zgi.com

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 May 1995 20:59:47 -0400
From: DONBREW@aol.com
Subject: Wort chillers

Danny asks about results and suggestions for a counter flow chiller.
One major design flaw I noted was you do need to put a piece of 2 inch pipe
with end caps inside the coil of copper tube. This minimizes water use and
increases flow rate. Mine cools too good.
Don
Donbrew@aol.com

------------------------------

Date: Sat, 13 May 1995 23:20:48 -0700
From: kwhitney@ix.netcom.com (Kenneth Whitney)
Subject: Hops Schedules

I've noticed some elaborate hopping schedules in recipes in old issues
of Zymurgy. They usually consist of adding small amounts of a variety
of hops over the course of the boil. With some it seems like you would
be dropping hops in the kettle every five minutes.

As I understand it, most of the bitterness extracted from hops depends
on isomerization of alpha acids, and that the amount of bitterness is
proportional to the length of the boil. And any flavor/aroma extracted
from hops is rapidly lost in boiling wort, so hop additions late in the
boil (or dry hopping) are used to add hop flavor and aroma.

So, now to my question. Is there some rationale for developing these
complex hopping schedules? Is it to blend various hop
bitterness/flavor/aroma compounds together? Are some combinations
better than others? Are certain boiling times better for certain hops
than others? What gives?

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 May 1995 12:39:59 -0400
From: Jaw3@aol.com
Subject: Mailing Beer From Europe

Date: 14May1995
From: Jim Wise <jaw3@aol.com>
Subject: Mailing Beer From Europe

Anybody know a good way to mail beer from Europe? A lucky friend will be
spending 6 weeks over there and has volunteered to send me some beer back.
What's the best way? He will be visiting England, Germany and Switzerland.
Suggestions will be much appreciated. TIA. Private e-mail OK.

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 May 95 11:49:47 -0500
From: rlabor@lsumc.edu (Ronald J. La Borde)
Subject: Microwave sanitation

Hi,

Many recent postings about sanitation using microwaves has struck me with an
idea. I haven't tried it yet, but it may be an interesting experiment for
some/several of us HB'ers to try.

If you think that the ole' microwave oven will work for sanitation then go
ahead as usual - put the items in the oven and add one additional item, a
package of dried yeast. I guess it needs to be opened (can't remember if
it's in foil) and place yeast in a small glass dish. Perform your
sanitation run just as if the yeast wasn't there and then afterwards remove
yeast, hydrate, and pitch to a small test batch of wort. Watch for results
and post to HBD.

Ronald J. La Borde ----------------------------------------
Work (504)568-4842 If the only tool you have is a hammer,
Home (504)837-0672 you tend to see every problem as a nail.
Metairie, LA ----------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 May 1995 13:29:39 -0400
From: ar568@freenet.carleton.ca (Aaron Shaw)
Subject: Grand Cru/ co*ck Ale

>From: MClarke950@aol.com
>Subject: Grand Cru?

>Is Grand Cru a style, sub style or brand name? I've seen the name
>mentioned in a few brewing publications, but no real info. Any info
>would help satisfy my curiousity, sample recipes a plus!

Grand Cru is a term used to denote a beer or wine of great vintage.
Examples of this are Rodenbach Grand Cru and Cantillon Grand Cru, both
of these beers consist of aged beer alone. Whereas straight Rodenbach
and Cantillon Gueuze are blends of aged and young beers.
Grand Cru beers usually have a higher gravity and hence a higher
alcohol content and are often meant to be laid down for a few years
before consumption.

On another note, in Ben Turner's The Compleat Home Winemaker & Brewer
there is a recipe for co*ck Ale (pg.119) which involves steeping a
chicken in wine and then placing the chicken in a nylon bag and suspending
it in the beer until fermentation is complete.
On one hand, the idea of chicken parts in my beer disgusts me,
but curiousity is killing me.
Oh hell, I am just trying to rekindle that zoomurgy thread of a
year ago, but seriously, has anyone ever tried this recipe?
Any thoughts about this type of recipe?

- --
"Come my lad, and drink some beer!"
Aaron Shaw
Ottawa, Canada

------------------------------

Date: Sun, 14 May 1995 14:10:16 -0400
From: TomF775202@aol.com
Subject: Aluminum Stainless kettles

<$100.00 more for stainless.
I would recomend sending for a Rapids Wholesale Equiptment Co. catalog.
I bought a 38.5 gallon kettle from them for $95. they have 60 Qt. kettles for
$161.25.
Call them at 1-800-4rapid1 for a catalog.

------------------------------
End of HOMEBREW Digest #1731, 05/15/95
*************************************
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